Looking for some head to head

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daofcmacg
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Looking for some head to head

Post by daofcmacg »

Hey guys, I'm looking for some head to head flying, the AI has just become to easy to predict and I want to see how far my talents have really gone.

DA
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KODIAK
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Post by KODIAK »

If no-one is around from these forums, you wouldn't go far wrong trying your luck on another server. Cahnces are though, your talents haven't gone much further than the first step out the door, like the rest of us. Sure we can hold our own against AI (as long as we're behind THEM! LOL), but there is an abundance of 'talent' out there that we've never even experienced to date. Having said that, at least you won't come up against the FPS style 'Run & Gun' crews, eh? 8)
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF

You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
daofcmacg
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Post by daofcmacg »

you are right on in that department. I know there are much better guys out there than us, thats why I want to go up against human players so I can really hone my skills. I think I can shake an AI bogey or two off my tail in a dog fight. I just have to remember to check six when I'm on a bogies tail, I tend to lose situational awareness, and target fixation sets in easily for me.

So if anyone wants to put in sometime more than once a week let me know.

DA
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KODIAK
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Post by KODIAK »

Well I can certainly consider extra time during weekends, mostly Saturday/Sunday afternoons my time. That's early Afternoon your time mate.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF

You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
Hammer
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Post by Hammer »

Grifter and Jedi would be good to fly head to head against...
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daofcmacg
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Post by daofcmacg »

Well I have to take back my comment about the AI. Last night I was on the six of an AI Russian Pilot, I guess he wanted to turn this into a turning fight so I obliged him because I thought hey thats there next to last resort, so here we go to starboard, he's in a sort of lazy turn trying to bleed me off before he bled off, so I point my noise down some to regain some speed for a quick lift back on his six. I watch the tag count backwards as he climbs away from me, before I pointed my noise down my airspeed was about 400 and I get it back to about 460 still in the turn eye's on him altitude is now about 1500 meters off the deck, just when I'm about to bleed off speed for altitude and close the distance he barrels over does a kind of split S verticle and to my amasement he has his guns trained on me on his power dive, all I can do is look at him shocked as he sends a volley my way from above. Low and behold after he continues his dive behind me and I prepare to roll over and dive backwards after him because I tried to counter with a semi steep climb to render his volley ineffective and my altitude is now 2200 meters I find the controls unresponsive. Yup you guessed it, my control surface was shot to hell so now here he comes back behind me and takes me out all within 20 seconds.
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Post by KODIAK »

Oh man!! :shock: :wink: Those AI are pretty screwy - they seem to be able to fly like Tie Fighters sometimes. We've noticed that on many an occasion. And I guess that is the real bonus of flying against another human pilot - they are generally on par with you, as far as stupid manouevers is concerned they are pretty non-existant. :roll:
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF

You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
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PanzerMeyer
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Post by PanzerMeyer »

I have no problem playing head to head as long as its not purely dogfighting. In other words, I would like to do actual missions head to head where you have fighters, fighter bombers, light bombers, etc. We can try playing these COOP missions head to head this Friday if you guys want.
I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious - Baron Munchausen
Hammer
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Post by Hammer »

I hear Tie Fighters a lot...along with several other compaints. If you all don't like it, don't fly the game! ;) Does CFS3 do the same thing? I think AI is dumb there...???

One could always try EAW (awesome sky-full battles there), but it will not run on newer video cards/drivers. Or WW2 fighters...

But no, I think PF is pretty good actually.
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Post by KODIAK »

I'm not saying iL-2 is bad. I am a great fan of the game, it is somewhat more satisfying than Falcon AF with the visual effects where you can watch parts and fragments falling away from the aircraft as you strike successfully with your own weapons. The AI DO fly well in general. But we've ALL witnessed the 'Tie Fighter' effect in the past with the game. It has and still does occur on occasion, as was noted the other week in the odd d/f for some of us.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF

You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
Hammer
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Post by Hammer »

i don't believe that any of us actully do really know what is and is not possible with WW2 flight models. what one might think is impossible actually may be...quite possible.
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PanzerMeyer
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Post by PanzerMeyer »

Steel wrote:i don't believe that any of us actully do really know what is and is not possible with WW2 flight models. what one might think is impossible actually may be...quite possible.
That is correct up to a certain extent. I DO know however that I have seen the AI fly their planes at well below stall speed but they dont fall out of the sky like a boulder off a cliff. Stall speed is modelled very different between human controlled planes and AI controlled planes. So its really not so much an issue of trying to guess what these planes were capable of in real life but that the AI fly by an entirely different set of rules and are affected by different physics when compared to human controlled planes.
I have learned from experience that a modicum of snuff can be most efficacious - Baron Munchausen
Hammer
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Post by Hammer »

not any more - remember the 4.01 patch gave all the same flight model. that is what we were all waiting on.

"We would like to point out that the new FM will take more system resources to run, especially when many aircraft are in the air at the same time. It doesn’t matter if it is human or AI, because our AI pilots use the same FM!"
Helmut
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Post by KODIAK »

But, ultimately, there is always the human versus computer control capabilities - a computer can easily outdo a human in maintaining the airccraft on the edge of the flight envelope, simply because it is a computer, and especially in a computer game. At the end of the day, a computer will be able to 'sit on the limits' somewhat more consistently than a human, not to mention recover more efficiently - it won't waste energy as a human pilot might. Of course the computer can become more easily predictable than a human.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF

You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
daofcmacg
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Post by daofcmacg »

I created a mission where there was no human pilot and carefully placed several static camera's to observe P-51's protecting a flight of B-17's against the latest 109's of that era and the P-51 AI's handled that plane 2000% better than we do.

Given the max speed of each individual aircraft yes they could perform most maneuvers that first and some second generation jets could perform but they all have there limits and I've seen the AI push those limits time and time again where as we could not but then like Kodiak said the computer is better at calculating each move they make and alot faster than we can and do it perfectly.

DA
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Hammer
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Post by Hammer »

"they could perform most maneuvers that first and some second generation jets could perform"

how do you know???

what P-51's and first and second generation jets have you flown? or designed...???

you guys kill me... :shock: :roll:
Helmut
KODIAK
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Post by KODIAK »

I think we all agree (those who have flown iL-2) that the AI aircraft have 'flown' their aircraft with some extraordinary manouevers in the past. The sort of manouever where you'd expect to see one of several things happen - loss of control, damage to the aircraft, blacked-out pilot . . . leading to loss of control etc., not to mention too many first time hits when lead shooting, or even in head-on passes. Beyond any built-in inaccuracies with the AI programming, deliberate or otherwise - the computer always 'knows' when it's 'on target' with weapons, it always knows how close to a stall it flies (or how close to the ground too!! LOL :wink: :lol: ) It 'sees' whats going on around it faster, sooner, and operates more efficiently than a human pilot aircraft ever will. Just as in the real F-16, and other FBW aircraft, where the aircraft is actually 'stabilised' for normal flight by use of a computer, where human reaction and processing is slower by a huge margin. Unfortunately, of course, you can't plug the pilot's brain into the aircraft (yet), so humans are automatically at a disadvantage in comparison. However, if you COULD plug a human into an aircraft in such a fashion, I don't think you could find a computer fast enough to be of equal ability.
Another fine example - any digital imaging system can view things up very close from far away, much better than the human eyeball. However, how many cameras do you know that have the resolution provided by the human eyeball? It's a war/trade-off of biology versus hardware.
The point being made is that the computer pilot in iL-2, in theory, has the advantage, but is let down by lack of AI programming where a human pilot has free thought.
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF

You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
Hammer
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Post by Hammer »

"in the past."

you all keep bringing that up. as of 4.01 the fm's are the same. let it go...

"the computer always 'knows' when it's 'on target' with weapons, it always knows how close to a stall it flies (or how close to the ground too!! LOL ) It 'sees' whats going on around it faster, sooner, and operates more efficiently than a human pilot aircraft ever will"

how do any of you know this? has someone had aconversation with Oleg or his team about whether or not they simulate human inaccuracies for the AI?

you all are assuming (ahem, ASS-U-ME) way too much about things you don't really know...that is my only point.

other than the fact that if you are going to fly the game and then complain about it, just stop flying it. or live with it and enjoy it (or don't...) and do not subject the rest of us to the constant complaints.
Helmut
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Post by KODIAK »

You shouldn't assume anyone is complaining about anything, peoiple like to talk about everything to do with these games, and that is why the bloody forums are here! :shock:
It is not the technique that wins a fight, but the more furious mind - Kodiak WOF

You are stuck on stupid. I'm not going to answer that question! - Gen Honore, New Orleans Sep 05
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